Protecting Our Kids: Social Media and Cyber Safety with Internet Safety Expert, Paul Davis

Do you ever worry about your child's online safety or feel lost trying to navigate the ever changing digital landscape? On this episode of the Parenting Ed-Ventures Podcast, Lara sat down with Paul Davis, an expert in social media and cyber safety who has been making a significant impact for over a decade. Paul is an author, TEDx speaker, and educator with over 33 years of IT experience. Known for his slogan, "the internet never forgets," Paul's mission is to educate children and empower parents about internet and social networking safety. He has shared his expertise with over 950,000 students and 95,000 parents across Canada, helping families navigate the complexities of online safety. Paul explains the importance of striking a balance of trust with your child while periodically monitoring their online activity for their safety. He also discusses the appropriate age for children to begin using social media and shares his thoughts on the classroom device bans that are spreading across the nation.

Lara Courtepatte: Thank you so much for joining us today, Paul. So, let’s start by giving the audience a bit of background on yourself. How did you get into this world of online safety and what pushed you into wanting to educate children and parents about it?

Paul Davis: The number one question I get asked. The interesting part is that it was completely accidental. So officially, I've been in IT and cyber for the past 33 years of my life, and 13 years ago, my daughter's school--I'm a father of two girls--the principal asked me why kids get in trouble using technology,--to which I responded, 'because parents have given their kids too much technology at a young age, and parents are completely clueless as to what most kids do with it online.' So he asked as a favour, if I could put something together with my knowledge, to keep them safe. I love my daughter's principal, I love my daughter's school, I care for the kids; I said, no problem. Doing one small favour, now I've changed my life forever. As a result of that favour, I've now spoken, as of this conversation, to 890,000 students in person, in six provinces and six states, an additional 95,000 more virtually, along with law enforcement, government agencies, and corporations. So what started off as a favour, just exploded, and this is all I do and I do it with a passion. I love walking into schools. I love engaging students. I love engaging parents. And, you know, call it fate, and that's why I'm here today.

Lara Courtepatte: That's an amazing story. I love it, and I love that you found an inner passion for this, and you were able to turn around a volun-told situation into a career. That's amazing. So what do you see as the most common online threats that children face today?

Paul Davis: There are numerous threats. It could be anywhere from bullying to extortion to the disinformation that's being fed to them, extremist views, going down paths of hyper sexualization, vaping, you name it. If they have an online platform, they're subjected to it.

Lara Courtepatte: What do you think the dangers are of the new AI surge that's been put online? Is that going to cause risk amongst our children?

Paul Davis: Yes, that's a whole podcast in itself. So I think AI has tremendous upside. We've already seen it. Unfortunately, we've also seen how it's hurt humans, not only kids, but adults. Again, disinformation, manipulation of images, manipulation of videos, the ability to transcribe what appears to be a normal video engagement into something completely different. It's already interfered with politics around the world, with elections. And with kids, you know, I want them to be empowered with technology, have an amazing future, but they also have to understand there are risks associated. So when it comes to AI, it's very complex, but I believe the key will be a little bit of pushing back in terms of what we should allow it to be used for and proper education with students understanding the risks and the rewards of it.

Lara Courtepatte: Is there a roadmap on when to inject technology, like at what age? And is there any type of roadmap that parents can look at and make sure that they're kind of on the right path?

Paul Davis: Well, I have three pillars for online safety, and with those pillars, might have time frames that you can subscribe to. So number 1: no technology in a child's bedroom. Computers, iPods, iPads, tablets, androids--all these devices don't belong in your child's bedroom at home. So, in a bedroom by themselves with the door closed, connection to the internet, there's a recipe for danger. Technology, when given to them, must be used in a common area of the home, where parents, guardians, caregivers, can guide them. Our children have two gifts in life given to them. One of them is curiosity when they were born, the next one was technology. But when you combine curiosity and technology in isolation with global connectivity, that's a recipe for danger. So Golden Rule number 1: no technology in a child's bedroom. Number 2: no smartphone until the middle of Grade 8. I've been saying it forever. I'm not saying Grade 8 is the magic number, but based on data I've collected, it can be an appropriate time to introduce a smartphone unless medically related. There is zero data to show how a smartphone has enhanced education in elementary schools. It's a distraction. We know that as a fact. When they have a an iPhone in Grade 4 and it's in their bedroom and the doors are closed and it's late at night, well, that iPhone, that Android, that smartphone, will be misused, and we don't want them to be misused. So we're going to not put them in their hands until a certain age. And number 3: no social media until you are 13. Now that's not Paul Davis's rule, that's Terms of Service laid out by COPPA, the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, which states we do not collect data from kids under the age of 13, and every social media platform has adopted 13, as the right age. You and I can have a coffee, and we can debate how it should be older, but when I present to kids and to parents, I have to go by the North American Standard, which is 13. In some countries, you must be older. If we had to have a debate on what that right age is, it would be an hour of a debate. But I have to go by 13. So if we follow these three pillars, which is, number 1: no technology in the bedroom. Number 2: no smartphones until middle of 8th grade. And number 3: no social media before 13, we can allow a child to use proper technology, with supervision, with education, to empower them, not to hurt them. It's simple, parents have just have to do it. So a lot of listeners will say, 'well, that's easy to say', well, it's actually easy to do, but a lot of parents are fearful of this word 'no', and they're fearful to use it with their children, because they're fearful of how their child will be responding when they hear the word 'no', and how that may cause a temper tantrum. And [their child] will come back to [them] with the guilt curve ball, which is, you know, 'Mom, I'm the only one without a phone', you know, 'Mom, I'm the only one without social media.' And then parents cave and give in to them. I tell parents, the short term pain of telling your child 'no'--which you'll feel--is much better than the long term pain of saying 'yes', and that long term pain could last for months, if not years, because of what they were subjected to, or how they were impacted online. So, simple to do, simple to execute, we just have to start parenting.

Lara Courtepatte: I love that advice. My kids come home all the time and say, 'Well, everyone else in my class gets to do this.' Or towards the end of the school year, we had received an email, you know, to bring games for the kids to play together. And so I sent my son with a board game, and he said, 'Mom, everyone brought Nintendo switches and electronics, and I was the only one with a board game, and no one wanted to play it.' And I felt bad, but that was what I read as 'bring games'. I thought we were still doing Jenga, and, you know, call me old school, but he's in grade two. I was a little bit disheartened, but they do--the kids compare themselves at that young of an age.

Paul Davis: It's really sad. It's sad, because the pressure to keep up with the others is every year more and more, but every year that I'm speaking to kids and parents, I tell them, I say, 'Well, this is where you can make a big change in your child's life.' And what is that change? Instill confidence, leadership, not being a follower, but being a leader, and knowing the rules your parents have in place are because they love you, not so that you can conform to what everybody else has and the rules they have in place. And I tell every parent this, and they know I'm right, except they have a hard time processing it. Your child will thank you later on. They're not going to thank you now, they're not happy with you right now. But they'll thank you later on, when they see and they reflect back and say, 'I get it'. I remember, you know, I share a story sometimes when it gets personal; I was, I think I was 14, and two of my friends and I were not allowed to go to this one big party, and it was big. My two friends, their parents, my parents were all close. Our parents got to know each other, and they all came to the agreement that, 'no, you guys are not going to this party'. Well, we found out after the fact what had happened at that party, not saying it could have been us, but we could have got mixed up into it. We were still upset. We wanted to be there, but now that we reflect back, you know, you hug your family, you say 'you knew something, thank you'. We get it, back then we were upset, we were teenagers we were angry, but our parents were parents. They didn't care about our the tears coming down our eyes, saying 'you're mean', 'you're hateful', 'you don't love me', 'you don't trust me', all that stuff. So it applies today as well, and if we can just step up our game as parents, our kids will be well-off as a result.

Lara Courtepatte: Is there such a thing as restricting technology too much?

Paul Davis: Of course not, because a lot of parents have said, 'well, what happens if I hold off for that smartphone until they're in Grade 9?' 'Will they be behind?' No, they will not, you know, I don't know where this concept came from, that if you don't put technology in your child's hands, they will fall behind in the education system or understanding how to use it. When I gave my daughters their devices, they ran circles around most kids within about a day. And why? Because they just, they just adapt to it. So can you put heavy restrictions on the device you want to give them to make it safe or to be around them? Yes, but to use the word 'no' and not putting their hands on it until a certain age is not hurting them at all. Look, I love technology. If you want to put a tablet in your child's hands and there's no online connectivity, but it does allow them to enhance their math skills, their language skills--absolutely. Your child wants to make a game? Put a tablet in your child's hands and supervise, just don't let them connect to the internet. The internet connection piece is the component that I'm concerned with. But by holding off, you are not doing a disservice to your child. I really want parents to understand that.

Lara Courtepatte: So the concept of digital trails can be pretty difficult to explain to children, especially at a younger age. Can you explain what digital trails are and why it's important for children to understand them?

Paul Davis: Everyone knows what a digital footprint is. It's what you've done online. It's permanent, it's real, it's searchable. A digital trail is how a digital footprint exists. And so in my presentation, to Grade 7 to 12, which are for those students and those educators there, they learn about how technology works, which effectively proves to them that what they've done online they're accountable for. When I speak to Grade 4, 5, 6, they're basically told that a digital trail proves your digital footprint and then you need to be responsible for all your activity online. But I don't get technical with them. I get technical with the Grade 7 to 12s. And then after I define example, after example, after example of what digital trails are, I lead into a 'no excuses' part of the presentation, which is, 'look, I've just spent 10 minutes sharing with you how technology works, you now know, based on everything you've learned, that okay, maybe that was real. So now we're going to make better choices'. But just to summarize, for the adults out there, everything online takes effort, and a digital trail is how that magical digital footprint exists. And law enforcement investigate everything we do online through our digital trail to authenticate our digital footprint, and that is one of the key components to my Grade 7 to 12 presentation, is establishing, without a shadow of a doubt, how technology works. So we're now empowering to make much better decisions as a teenager and as an adult.

Lara Courtepatte: So parents often struggle with monitoring their kids social media and cell phone use without feeling like they're invading their child's privacy or making them stand out from their peers. I know you mentioned before that we need to learn to say then the word 'no', that's the top rule. But do you have any advice on how to strike that balance?

Paul Davis: One thing that is a thorn in my side is when I hear, 'what about my child's privacy?' You know, I help a lot of parents out, and sometimes I've said to them, 'okay, here's what we need to do'. And sometimes the response is, 'well, what about my child's privacy?' I say, 'if you're going to go down that path, I'm not the right person to help you', like, honestly. I can't stand hearing that sometimes, because when we keep applying that, that's why kids get hurt; because you don't want to look at what's happening online. I get asked, 'So what's the right age to be looking at your child's device?' Well, my answer isn't the only answer, but I can tell you, my daughters had their phones looked-at, up until the age of 16. I didn't go through it frequently but they knew I'm a spot check away from it. But my daughters also had some restrictions on devices, and they were brought up with a cyber dad, and we had some very good conversations. You know, relationships are very important in online safety, and so, you know, I'm not going to tell a parent go through your child's phone up until the age of 16, but I'll tell them, don't be afraid to. With many of the things that parents have shared with me, the reason their child is in a better place is because they went through the phone, that the parent owns, that they've loaned their child, and they found a red flag, and that red flag led to helping that child, because if they would have respected their child's privacy, that 13 year old could be in a very bad place right now. And so I really want to move away from that phrase, because that's how a lot of kids get hurt. So yes, you do spot checks on your child's phone, but more importantly is you establish a relationship with your child. They know you're not spying, they know you're caring, and that's why you're going to go through devices on a regular basis. You're going to talk to them about what's happening. That's the key to protecting our children, not government, regulation and legislation, and all these bills wanting to be passed. Relationship between parent/guardian and child, and knowing that you're not going to be afraid to go through a child's device. Now, don't start that right after this podcast. I remember a father connecting with me once, and his son had seen my presentation. His daughter hadn't. She was a year older, and so when the dad came home and was going through his son's device, no problem. Well, his daughter wasn't expecting it, and that had a different outcome. And again, you're not just going to do it. You're going to remind your child, 'oh, by the way, I was just educated, New World Order. That's my phone. It's on loan to you. We're going through it on a regular basis.' Put the rules in place because you're a parent, you're not negotiating, but develop the relationship that it's not spying, it's because you care and you'll see stuff that some kids will never see. The red flags that parents have approached me with, kids would never know it's a red flag, but parents see it.

Lara Courtepatte: Do you offer individual, private kind of consultations for parents who feel lost in the weeds?

Paul Davis: So when a parent reaches out to me with a situation, the number one situation recently is sextortion. If their child is in crisis, I will never, ever charge. I pick up the phone. I will not consult through email. We'll have a conversation. I'll give them some guidance to assist them, because hearing someone's voice can be very therapeutic. Have I offered one on one consultations as a preventive? Yes, and then I'll charge a fee for that where we can get together one on one. I prefer the human interaction. So when I'm in Alberta, I will line up times when I'm there over a weekend and meet or we'll do it by zoom, and we'll do it virtually. But if it's a matter requiring immediate attention, it could be a crisis matter. It's always on the phone. It's not at a cost.

Lara Courtepatte: I like when you said that we as the parents, are the owner of the the device, and it's on loan to our kids. I had a neighbour who I said, 'Oh, I saw you got your daughter a car. And he said, No, no, it's my car. I'm lending it to her.' And so it made me think of that, because it's true. We almost get them all these great things, and then they think for sure they're the owner of it. And so it almost makes us as parents go, 'Well, yeah, I guess you are. I gifted it to you'. And I guess that's not the situation.

Paul Davis: No, because I mean, during a police investigation, they're going to go through the owner first, so remember, your child is a user. You're the owner, and police officers start investigations with owners before they go down to users. You can say, 'No, it wasn't in my possession, I purchased it as a gift for my child, they're using it', but you made the financial acquisition. You pay the bill every month, and you probably signed a contract with the network. You're the owner. When does that change? When they're 18. So one of the messages in my presentation to students is, a phone is on loan to you. It's a privilege. It's not a right. And so with privileges will come your parents', rules and guidelines, and if you fail to abide by them, there will be subsequent consequences.

Lara Courtepatte: What are your thoughts on when a parent takes the phone away from the child and then the child has no way of communicating with their parents when they're out and about, and perhaps need to contact them they don't have their device anymore. Is it a good idea to take the device away as a form of punishment?

Paul Davis: That's a parental decision to make. But don't be afraid to take it away. Some parents take their child's device away over the summer because they need a break. And I think that's parenting 101. But if you're concerned about that, again, I'll lead you to my Facebook page where I love plugging my flip phones. I'm a guy who travels around with five smartphones and a couple of flip phones. When I show kids my flip phone, when they ask me because they don't believe me, they think it's actually cool. And so I actually recently gave away one on my Facebook page as a contest. It's a $99 flip phone. They're brand new. They dial 911, they make phone calls, they text, but, you know, it's painstaking.

Lara Courtepatte: So when it comes to smartphones and Wi Fi, are there any security features parents can enable to protect their children? Or is the biggest thing just educating your child?

Paul Davis: It's education for sure. But should you put restrictions on the device? Yeah, you should buy third party applications that allow you to restrict your child's device from accessing pornographic websites, perhaps social media platforms that promote extremist views, ideologies, hyper sexualization. You know, avoid that. When you do purchase your child a smartphone, you should absolutely put restrictions on it. And my age of restrictions goes upwards to Grade 8 or 9, and then my guidance is to lessen the restrictions and enhance the relationship. So while the restrictions are in place, you're going to develop a really good relationship with your child, and then you're going to relax the restrictions, but you're going to enhance that relationship piece.

Lara Courtepatte: So it's a bit of a blend of education and using those apps to protect them. So I'm not sure if you heard that Alberta recently banned cell phone use in K to 12 classrooms. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on this move? What role should schools play and keeping kids safe from online threats.

Paul Davis: There is zero data to show how a smartphone has enhanced education in elementary school. You do have theories like '21st century education', 'it's the future', 'if they don't have it, they're going to fail.' We need to teach them regulation. You've had eight years to do it. What do you think is going to change the next couple of years? Nothing, because they are kids, and that light on that smartphone will distract the child's education. Do I believe in technology in the classroom? Yes, I believe in a laptop, let's say a Chromebook--because they're really inexpensive and have restrictions at the school board level--is amazing to assist in education, the smartphone has proven to be the distraction and have proven to be the piece that goes into the bathroom for not two minutes at a time, but for 10, 20, minutes at a time. They're making TikToks, they're texting each other to go and vape somewhere. The other piece that I show parents in the evening is privacy. [There are many] examples of how those smartphones have been misused in the school and other people's privacies have been invaded, including in the bathroom, and you would never want a child to be subjected to that. So I do support the policy. I want it to be completely 'away for the day', until they leave school premises. Many schools, prior to this announcement, have already gone 'away for the day', and I'm proud to say that a lot of them, I visited. So when I speak to parents in the evening, I give them my position, I provide data. It's not a Paul Davis theory. It's not a Paul Davis directive. I'm giving you data, saying here's why it's working, and schools who've done that have told me unequivocally since [implementing] 'away for the day', [they have seen] an increase in marks, decreased drama, decreased bullying. Now, if you've got data to counter that, I would love to see it, because all you have are theories on how it could work. I've got data on how 'away for the day' has worked, and that's where I want to focus on. And I bleed tech--believe me--it's in my DNA, but a device with a kid just hasn't worked out. And you know, one other thing I'd like to say to all the teachers listening, nothing is ever going to replace your human interaction. With your training, you will understand if the child has educational concerns, behavioural issues, and because of your training, you make that child more successful, not chat GPT, not the latest $1,500 smartphone, not the latest Chromebook, it's the human being with technology as an assistant.

Lara Courtepatte: I read a lot of comments about this ban on cell phone use, and a lot of people said 'what? I already thought this was in place.' For me, my kids are very young, and so cell phones aren't an issue, but I would have thought that the cell phones weren't permitted during class hours already, as it stands. And so I think that overall, from what I've seen, parents are very pleased with this ban on the use of cell phones in the classrooms.

Paul Davis: [Parents] are extremely happy about this. Are you going to have a very small percentage that's not? Absolutely. But the one thing about life that I've learned is that not everyone will be on the same page, and that's acceptable. So if you're not happy with the announcement, I'm sure there's a school that allows for devices all day, maybe it's time to move to that school. You know, I'm not being mean, I'm just saying, if you're not going to be happy with it, there are options out there, and maybe we should explore those options. [Some parents] want to know what their kid is doing every minute of every day. Teachers are telling me that parents are texting their kids in the classroom and are distracting from their education. And I'm not comparing this generation to when I was brought up, but I do know a fact: we were okay without devices, without our parents. If we had an issue, we went to the office, we made a phone call. If we were sick, we'd go to the office, we tell the office we're sick and our parents would be notified. Parents are picking up their kids at school, and the principals are beside themselves because they're saying [to the parent], 'why exactly are you here?' [And the parents respond], 'well, my son texted me that they're sick.' But the protocol is that the child has to go to the office, inform the office that they'd like to leave, and then the office communicates this to the parents. So there's a protocol to follow, and the parents, who are always connecting with their kids, are breaking those protocols, and they put the risk of the child in play when someone may not know that they're absent because apparently, they were sick, because the office wasn't notified. So again, it's not me being mean. There's procedure in place that shows that if we are constantly, you know, allowing them to have these devices, the procedures are being broken, which puts the child at risk. But what has happened with the introduction of BYOD (bring your own device) is that parents, they want to know what's happening to the child all the time, right? And the child at school needs to learn, to not constantly provide updates to parents as to, you know, if they're hungry, or if they're bored, or if they're tired. That's part of life at school, and we'll deal with it at school.

Lara Courtepatte: You're right, it's completely changed the dynamic. And also this is preparing them for their professional lives, because you're not going to want to be on your cell phone all the time, and you're not going to maintain a job if you do that.

Paul Davis: In my presentations, I do not permit phones, and sometimes I've been asked why. I said, Well, I'm here to educate you. This was in the inception BYOD, when it started happening. And my policy with principals is I don't want to see phones. Now in high school, I can't control it, but upwards of Grade 9, principals have all done a great job. Why? Because I have them for an hour. But then I tell them at the end, I say, 'you know when you go for a job interview if you if you fall into this habit of always walking around with your device, and you walk into an interview and your phone's attached to your palm, you've got air pods hanging out of your ears, you're distracted by your watch, you've already left an impression.' You want to walk in with confidence, without devices on your body. So I'm trying to actually help [them] at a stage where later on, when [they] meet with someone for a half hour, one on one, as you are with me right now, you are providing full focus and engagement, not distraction. So it's my small way of assisting these kids later on. But really, the truth of matter is, when I have kids, I want their eyes for an hour not staring down at the top of their heads. That's how passionate I am about education.

Lara Courtepatte: Well, you're not fully listening if you have a device in your hand, that's for sure. And so if you want full attention, that's the only way to get it. So, you have a few audiences then, you've got the students of various different age levels, you've got the parents who are concerned about their children, but you also have the administration and the teachers, you've got the principals who spend arguably more time during those 10 months with our children than we do as parents. And so do you have any other audiences that you kind of support, or are those your main target audiences?

Paul Davis: My typical day at a school, depending if it goes up to Grade 9, for example, is I would visit grade 4 or 5, 6s, I would provide them with an age-appropriate presentation along with their educators. Then, I speak to Grades 7 to 9. That's more intense, fast-paced, different topic of conversation for them and their educators. And then in the evening, I come back and I speak to parents and teachers, and principals, and they get the that version. Now, from that, it's evolved to now corporate presentations where I do privacy presentations for corporate individuals. The presentations that are done for law enforcement are primarily on privacy, sextortion, some components with human trafficking. It's all part of the technical delivery for them based on what I learned. And then there's small businesses that just want either a general overview for their employees. They bring me in as a value add. So I've had all these various opportunities as a result of speaking to kids.

Lara Courtepatte: That's fantastic. And I mean, I go back to when I was in grade school, and I remember when I had a presentation on drinking and driving, and it stuck with me. Like literally, I remember seeing the pictures that they showed, and it really stuck with me. And this is what is resonating with me with what you're doing is the messages that you're putting forth are going to sit with these students. They're going to remember them. The parents are going to remember them. Hopefully, they hear your voice in their head for a little bit, and then it turns into their own voice where they think 'I'm going to remember to say no when I feel like I need to say no.' And 'I'm not going to let them whittle me down to bringing their cell phone into their bedroom because I know that's not the right decision, and it's too risky.' And so your messaging then becomes their messaging, and I think that's so powerful.

Paul Davis: One thing I pride myself on is when I get stopped by a student who's seen me years prior, and they remember one thing, then I've done my job. So when I say my job is done, I've accomplished my goal in impacting someone. I remember I was helping my wife at a function which involved students and her business and a student walked up to me and said, 'you look familiar'. I said, 'really? In what capacity?' His girlfriend ran up to him and said, 'he came to our school and he spoke about cyber safety.' Now, these were Grade 12s. They saw me when they were in Grade 9. I said, 'you remember that from four years ago?' And she said, 'our whole classroom changed their passwords because of your presentation.' I said, 'you have no idea how that makes me feel.' That's pretty cool. Or meeting a kid wherever, even at an amusement park, right? I'm not too far from one and I used to hang out there a lot, and kids would be coming up and they'll say something like 'the internet never forgets' or a variation of it, right? That makes me feel amazing because the message stuck. Because when I walk in to speak to kids, I don't threaten them. There's no fear. It's all data. It's all facts. And then guidance based on that. If they listen to that guidance based on the data, these kids will be great. Now, facts are facts, which is not everyone's going to listen. I have to accept that. But if the majority do, and they retain it, and they share it, that's my goal.

Lara Courtepatte: You're a mountain mover. And like you said, even if just some of the students, every time you talk, carry one tidbit with them, that's worth everything.